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 Turbo issues: DLX 1.5

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knedge
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PostSubject: Turbo issues: DLX 1.5   Sun May 05, 2013 11:27 pm

Dear fellow members,
Over the last 4-5 months there was a whooshing/whistle like sound emanating from my vehicle wherever I accelerated beyond a certain RPM. I bore with it for long and finally gave it for servicing to a local mechanic- he said it was my turbo which needed servicing as oil had accumulated in the connector hose.

Now, 1 month after servicing, the same problem has recurred- noise as if air is leaking while accelerating and oil in the hose connecting turbo.

This time, my mechanic advised that as the problem has recurred within a month, I might need to get the turbo replaced from the authorized service center.

Now, my Logan has covered 68k Kms and I am a heavy user but I request the members to suggest if there can be any other reason for the clogging of turbo connectors or is it likely that the turbo is kaput and needs replacement. Also, if you may suggest regarding the damages that I should be ready to pay in case replacement is the only solution.
Thanks!
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martin245
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PostSubject: Re: Turbo issues: DLX 1.5   Mon May 06, 2013 3:26 am

Is it losing power or using lots of Oil ! ? Is there a lot of "WHITE" smoke when you accelerate
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knedge
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PostSubject: Re: Turbo issues: DLX 1.5   Mon May 06, 2013 4:16 am

martin245 wrote:
Is it losing power or using lots of Oil ! ? Is there a lot of "WHITE" smoke when you accelerate
Hi Martin,
its losing power. Its difficult to accelerate beyond 110-120 km per hour on highways and even on lower speeds the power loss is apparent.
The smoke when vehicle is static and i rev isn't white- its black.
WRT the oil consumption- do you mean fuel consumption or engine oil consumption.
The fuel consumption is alright- around 13 km per leter, but I suspect the engine oil consumption is high because for the last 2 cycles the local service stations are changing the oil/refilling engine oil at 4-5k only because either the levels are down or the oil loses effectiveness.
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vabs1981
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PostSubject: Re: Turbo issues: DLX 1.5   Mon May 06, 2013 11:15 am

The Oil level is important thing for this in turbocharged engines.

Once my mechanic had filled 4.9 ltrs of oil instead of standard 4.1 ltrs in engine.After some time i found oil is leaking from near radiator area. Same time the whooshing sound started to come.Once I went under the car & saw the oil was coming from turbo intercooler inlet hose.

Immediately I told my mechanic to reduce oil level by 0.9 ltrs. I personally checked that. After which i made him to open the intercooler. Now I noticed the inlet hose of lntercooler was dripping with oil . My good was oil had not been entered in the intercooler. First of all mechanic told me to replace the intercooler but I insisted him not to. Just clean the intercooler & clean the I/L & O/l near hoses & installed back. Since that time I've noticed the drive after 1600 RPM very very smooth ( in turbo) & power is also great. However when I crosses 2200 RPM the same whooshing sound comes again for while & then went off.

After that I started to do the turbo idling with startup of car & parking at the end of day. Which has sufficiently reducing the noise.

Also your milage for Diesel logan may not be that correct. Verify it on full tank method only. Cause this K9K series engine have to give at least 17 KMPL. My car gives around 18 KMPL in city ( AC) & 21 KMPL on highway (AC) with top speed of 110- 130 .Also try to drive in the range of 1200 to 1900 RPM in each gear. Which will subsequebntly give you power of turbo & hence less fuel consumption.

Stu, Saumil your views on this please.

Thanks,

Vaibhav.
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martin245
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PostSubject: Re: Turbo issues: DLX 1.5   Mon May 06, 2013 1:59 pm

Yes to much oil is a killer for a motor because the Crankshaft SLAPS the oil into a foam and this cannot get to the places it should !
Right your mechanic seems to be ripping you off does he do a oil test to see if your oil has lost its effectiveness (I doubt it) and why change Oil at 5000 other than make money ?If the Oil level is dropping you top it up (YOURSELF) when I say Oil I mean Motor oil
And now for the advise you dont want to hear

A Turbo is a very dear Part and a very necessary part and if it breaks it can wreck your motor The only (and Best) advise is for you to go to a Renault or Mahindra Garage and show them the car .A Back street garage in your case can be dear !
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knedge
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PostSubject: Re: Turbo issues: DLX 1.5   Wed May 08, 2013 5:31 pm

martin245 wrote:
Yes to much oil is a killer for a motor because the Crankshaft SLAPS the oil into a foam and this cannot get to the places it should !
Right your mechanic seems to be ripping you off does he do a oil test to see if your oil has lost its effectiveness (I doubt it) and why change Oil at 5000 other than make money ?If the Oil level is dropping you top it up (YOURSELF) when I say Oil I mean Motor oil
And now for the advise you dont want to hear

A Turbo is a very dear Part and a very necessary part and if it breaks it can wreck your motor The only (and Best) advise is for you to go to a Renault or Mahindra Garage and show them the car .A Back street garage in your case can be dear !

gave my Logan for servicing and made them take a note of the Turbo oil problem I had been experiencing. The estimated servicing costs are as follows:

1. Packing (??): 450 +450 (labour)
2. Engine Mounting: 3800 +450
3. Gear Mounting: 2200+ 650
4. Brake Disk: 2700 +650
5. Brake Pad: 2300 +250
6. Brake Liner: 2000 +850
7. Clutch Cable: 1200 +550
8. Axle Boot: 1600
9. Outer Axle Boot: 3500 (+1500 labour charge for both boots)
10. Air Filter: 700
11. Timing Belt: 4000
12. Accessory Belt: 3500
13. EVR cleaning: 850
14. Wiper Motor Assembly: 13000
15. Wheel Bearing (Rear wheel pair): 7000 +1500
16. Suspension (Front+Back): 20000 (including labour)

Total: 75,650!! Needless to say, I had a mild hard attack just looking at the estimates. Stopped them from touching my vehicle till I give a go-ahead.
Thing is, I went to the service station due to the anticipated Turbo problem (which I don't think any procedure mentioned above takes care of) and now they say more or less everything needs to be replaced!!
In fact, I got the front suspension assembly replaced a 3 months back!
I would be grateful if the esteemed experienced members would guide me if there are procedures that I should postpone and get done in local garage or whether they are trying to rip me off.
Thanks.
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martin245
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PostSubject: t   Wed May 08, 2013 7:02 pm

Tell them in good English to Fu** Off !!!! They forgot the water Pump !!!
1. Packing (??): 450 +450 (labour) What Packing
2. Engine Mounting: 3800 +450 WHY Engine Mounting
3. Gear Mounting: 2200+ 650 WHY Gear Mounting
4. Brake Disk: 2700 +650 Only 1 ??

5. Brake Pad: 2300 +250 Only 1 ??
6. Brake Liner: 2000 +850 Only 1 Brake Liner ??
7. Clutch Cable: 1200 +550 Is the Clutch Cable Broken ?
8. Axle Boot: 1600
9. Outer Axle Boot: 3500 (+1500 labour charge for both boots)
ARE THE BOOTS RIPPED ?????? BOTH ?????
10. Air Filter: 700 OK
11. Timing Belt: 4000 WHY ????
12. Accessory Belt: 3500 WHY and why so dear ??
13. EVR cleaning: 850 EVR Cleaning ?? What is that
14. Wiper Motor Assembly: 13000
15. Wheel Bearing (Rear wheel pair): 7000 +1500 WHY
16. Suspension (Front+Back): 20000 (including labour WHY

TELL THESE PEOPLE THAT YOU HAVE CONTACTED MAHINDRA AND THEY HAVE REQUESTED THE ADDRESS AND TEL NUMBER OF THE FIRM AND HAVE TO YOU NOT TO GO THROUGH WITH THE SERVICE
AND THEN GIVE THEM A GOOD KICK IN THE Bollox From Stu in Germany !!!!!
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martin245
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ClubLogan Points : 2090
Registration date : 2008-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Turbo issues: DLX 1.5   Wed May 08, 2013 7:09 pm

I would honestly take it to Renault and ask them to put the ECR plug in and do a control for you .Say you feel you are being ripped off and show them the list you have !!
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knedge
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PostSubject: Re: Turbo issues: DLX 1.5   Wed May 08, 2013 8:03 pm

martin245 wrote:
Tell them in good English to Fu** Off !!!! They forgot the water Pump !!!
1. Packing (??): 450 +450 (labour) What Packing
2. Engine Mounting: 3800 +450 WHY Engine Mounting
3. Gear Mounting: 2200+ 650 WHY Gear Mounting
4. Brake Disk: 2700 +650 Only 1 ??

5. Brake Pad: 2300 +250 Only 1 ??
6. Brake Liner: 2000 +850 Only 1 Brake Liner ??
7. Clutch Cable: 1200 +550 Is the Clutch Cable Broken ?
8. Axle Boot: 1600
9. Outer Axle Boot: 3500 (+1500 labour charge for both boots)
ARE THE BOOTS RIPPED ?????? BOTH ?????
10. Air Filter: 700 OK
11. Timing Belt: 4000 WHY ????
12. Accessory Belt: 3500 WHY and why so dear ??
13. EVR cleaning: 850 EVR Cleaning ?? What is that
14. Wiper Motor Assembly: 13000
15. Wheel Bearing (Rear wheel pair): 7000 +1500 WHY
16. Suspension (Front+Back): 20000 (including labour WHY

TELL THESE PEOPLE THAT YOU HAVE CONTACTED MAHINDRA AND THEY HAVE REQUESTED THE ADDRESS AND TEL NUMBER OF THE FIRM AND HAVE TO YOU NOT TO GO THROUGH WITH THE SERVICE
AND THEN GIVE THEM A GOOD KICK IN THE Bollox From Stu in Germany !!!!!
To tell you the truth, I couldn't muster enough "himmat" i.e. courage to go down and inspect the parts myself. But will be doing that tomorrow.
I will closely inspect that parts that they suggest changing and get back on the forum.
Sorry about the usage of singular when I specified the brake-parts- the charges are mentioned for a pair!
The problem is- most of the stuff they mention in the garage- Axle Boot, EVR (I think they were talking about cleaning the exhaust pipe due to black smoke emanating), etc. is greek to me.
Some of the procedures I would simply pass, like Suspension, Engine/Gear Mounting, Wiper Motor Assembly, Wheel Bearing, etc. as I think they are simply changing them after looking at the odo- 67K.
Brake- I will inspect all the parts and only then go for it on need-to basis.
Unfortunately, I have no clue about the Axle boot stuff and what it actually does, so, I might get ripped off there.
When I grilled them on Timing/Accessory belt, they relented and said the existing ones are good for another 10K!
I have no clue about ECR and what it does, can you please elaborate. If this procedure helps me identify the problems that they supposedly are suggesting solution to- I will be saved.
Thanks for the "whys"- gave me courage!
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martin245
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Registration date : 2008-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Turbo issues: DLX 1.5   Wed May 08, 2013 9:53 pm

You do not change anything unless it is Broken and the timing belt does not get changed on a Logan Diesel until 160000 Km or 6 years ! and also the Water pump will be changed at the same time with the tensioner
The rubber boot looks like this http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/249999468/Auto_Rubber_Driveshaft_Boot.jpg
Just look under the hood and down to the wheel you will see a shaft going into the middle of the wheel assembly it is there you will see the Boot (Take a torch ) and check it !In fact just lie down under the car and you will see these Left and right .Now what is wrong with the Wipers ?
OOPS that was my fault I meant OBD and not ECR You will find the plug here http://www.outilsobdfacile.com/location-plug-connector-obd.php?brand=dacia&model=logan
and you can buy the OBD tool cheap ! In fact I have just bought one today on ebay for 12 and run it from your Android Telephone with the App Torque Lite ! download it and have a look and you can upgrade it for 3 for the full App like I say have a look its worth getting because you can use these things on any car
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martin245
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Registration date : 2008-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Turbo issues: DLX 1.5   Wed May 08, 2013 10:17 pm

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knedge
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PostSubject: Re: Turbo issues: DLX 1.5   Thu May 09, 2013 11:17 am

martin245 wrote:
And here are the codes for Dacia !! bounce http://www.permoveo.ltd.uk/tabid/123/Diagnostics/Dacia/Default.aspx

Gods in heaven!! Got a call from the workshop and this is what they said after royal screwing last evening:
1. Engine/Gear Mounting not required for 6 months
2. Brake assembly requires replacement as they are worn out (haven't checked myself)
3. Axle Boot/Outer Axle Boot are good for another 6 months
4. Timing/Accessory Belt requires replacement
They will be communicating the total damages to me shortly.
Approx. estimate 25K including 7K servicing charges.
Will keep posted about the fall-outs!!
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vabs1981
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PostSubject: Re: Turbo issues: DLX 1.5   Thu May 09, 2013 11:51 am

Really this Mahindra people are useless..... They don't know the problems & quotes whatver they think need to be changed doesn't even are bothered to ask about the service history if the car is new. Thier atitude is like " JUST DO IT" & Pay us That's all.

when I had been to them at 3G motors, Dombivli for abnormal bass sound in cabin, the service person put the car on screw jack & started to clean the EGR valve, but still after that the problem continued.

Important to mention I didn;t paid him a penny as the problem was not solved.

Hence took the car out & checked by other mechanic known for his knowledge. At one look under the bonnet he found the problem of Engine mounting & cleared it on same day.

vabs1981

P.S.

KNEDGE, PM your cell no. to me. or call me if you are in mumbai. Isending my cell no. to you.
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martin245
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LOGAN Model : DACIA LOGAN 14mpi Lauriette Simply Red
ClubLogan Points : 2090
Registration date : 2008-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Turbo issues: DLX 1.5   Thu May 09, 2013 4:33 pm

1. Engine/Gear Mounting not required for 6 months CRAP They have no time Limit
2. Brake assembly requires replacement as they are worn out (haven't checked myself) OK
3. Axle Boot/Outer Axle Boot are good for another 6 months
CRAP They have no time Limit
4. Timing/Accessory Belt requires replacement Only if the car is 160000KM or 6 years Old With no timing belt change and ask why they do not do the water pump with it
They will be communicating the total damages to me shortly.
Approx. estimate 25K including 7K servicing charges.

I suggest Stay away from this crooked Garage !!!! Please take a look at this page where we buy our stuff ebay ! it is a Timing Belt tensioner water pump and Gaskets for all just under 60 We this is to show you that the water pump is replaced with the Timing Belt http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http://www.ebay.de/itm/Wasserpumpe-Zahnriemen-Renault-Dacia-Logan-/360564282705%3Fpt%3DDE_Autoteile%26hash%3Ditem53f34e5551
It is up to you BUT if your water pump starts to leak you need to Buy all that stuff again !!!!!!!!
How Many Miles has your car done and How Old is it ? and maybe the last owner had the timing Belt changed
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knedge
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PostSubject: Re: Turbo issues: DLX 1.5   Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:04 pm

Apologies to those who were waiting for the epilogue to my 'little' tryst with the Mahindra ASS! Special thanks to Martin and Vabs who gave me enough guidance and courage to take the ASS guys on!!

I finally got my logan repaired on May 12th for 23k which included replacement of Timing Belt, Accessory Belt, Air Filter, Clutch wire, the entire Brake assembly and Turbo 'packing'.

Then I went straight to my friendly neighborhood garage and got my wind-shield wiper repaired for Rs 100. Apparently it was just a nut that required tightening at the top! And the ASS guys were trying to charge me 13000 for the same thing!!!
They also checked the Engine/Gear mounts and the Axel/Outer Axel boot and opined that there was nothing wrong with them.

Then my friends, on 28th morning 4 AM, I took my Logan on a little 3000 Km Mumbai-Delhi-Mumbai trip. Boy! Did it go!! Not once in those 20 hours to and 18 hours fro journey, did I experienced the catastrophic problems that the ASS guys advised me to be prepared for!


Little niggle in gear shifting that I was blaming on the new clutch
wire taking time to adjust, turned out to be a loose screw in the gear
assembly and was taken care of in Delhi for a 100 bucks.

This machine is mean and its meant to be driven and driven hard...its then that it reveals its true fangs!!

Only issue is that the headlights of this beast appear to be weak and gave problems during night time driving. It appears that the reflectors need replacement. will keep posted.

Thanks again to Martin and Vabs and others who kept my moral high during this ordeal!
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vabs1981
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LOGAN Model : DLX 1.5
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PostSubject: Re: Turbo issues: DLX 1.5   Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:14 pm

Dear knedge,
I''ll suggest you to 300 to 400 bucks on detailing rather than spending 6000 on new headlights.search the detailing process on carzspa(search on Google).if your headlite bulbs are 55w replace with 100/110 philips lamp with wiring harness.
Vaibhav
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martin245
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LOGAN Model : DACIA LOGAN 14mpi Lauriette Simply Red
ClubLogan Points : 2090
Registration date : 2008-04-07

PostSubject: Re: Turbo issues: DLX 1.5   Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:46 pm

Nice to hear this mate !!!! About the lights just buy some good quality bulbs ! Not to hot though don't forget the glass is plastic Xenon-white H4 should do the job ! Didnt they change the water pump for you when they did the Timing Belt ? I suppose they would have done ! and Yes the Renault motors just love to be pushed hard !But you cannot push it to hard because it is governed (meaning you cannot over rev it) Did you take any photos on your Journey ?
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