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 Required CNG Kit Suggestion

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sailent_killer
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PostSubject: Required CNG Kit Suggestion   Sun May 13, 2012 1:40 pm

Hi to all logan members,

My self Parag residing in pune and having Logan 1.4 GLX Petrol (2008 Model). Only 12000 Km are completed in my vehicle and i am thinking to go for CNG conversion kit for my vehicle and i need you expert/experienced opinion. I have some queries if you can guide me for same,

1) Is is good to go for CNG kit for my vehicle after 4 year of usage on petrol ?
2) If yes then which is the best CNG kit available that suits my car ?
3) which is the best option for fitment either company or outside with authorized dealer ?
4) What will be the price of kit and also difference in both option (point no. 3) ?
5) Procedure to go for cng conversion kit ? i.e. registration, things to consider during fitment, initial checkup, best place to fit part in my vehicle, after service schedule ?
6) My vehicle is registered in Gujarat so do i need to fit this kit in Gujarat or can i do this in pune itself ?
7) If anyone can share their experience during/after having conversion kit ?
Cool Also please let me know any other thing that i missed here and need to know before/after having conversion kit ?

I know i ask lot of things but you can understand that like child enter in this big world and not aware of things, like to know everything. am behaving same Smile
Will wait for your review/update for this and like to thank you in advance for all of you having such good logan forum.
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martin245
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PostSubject: Re: Required CNG Kit Suggestion   Sun May 13, 2012 2:50 pm

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sailent_killer
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PostSubject: Re: Required CNG Kit Suggestion   Sun May 13, 2012 3:05 pm

Thanks martin for your link. But if anyone can provide comments on my queries will be good.
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martin245
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PostSubject: Re: Required CNG Kit Suggestion   Sun May 13, 2012 3:11 pm

The car will be Ok with such a low mileage you will though have to work out the costs of IS IT WORTH IT .Will you be driving lots of Miles for the next 5 years and if so work out what you will save by putting the cost of fitting and lets say 60000miles worth of CNG I thought about this and i would not be saving on it ! and it also needs servicing ! and you will lose your spare wheel if you have the Gas tank in the boot .Mine is also a 1400 Dacia Logan and my fuel consumption is Ok ...also CNG does not give the same power as Petrol so its worth having a good think and then going out and buy a nice Stereo for the car which you will enjoy more
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sailent_killer
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PostSubject: Re: Required CNG Kit Suggestion   Mon May 14, 2012 12:54 pm

Yes you are correct martin. but we can say same thing in different way. I am having 12000 because petrol cost is too much in india and i am living with wife and kid so for 3 people its really costly for any long trip. I think that i will go with car for more 4-5 years and today to go to my hometown it cost me same if i go with cng in my car. so i m thinking in that way.

So my other queries are still pending without answers Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Required CNG Kit Suggestion   Mon May 14, 2012 1:43 pm

Then I now agree with you and you should go for the conversion ! If you will be able to use the car more often due to the price difference then go for it !! Here in Germany there are lots of people changing to CNG and we have LOTS of filling stations I have a friend in England who fitted his own CNG system in a Rover MG
and you will get at least 10 years out of your Renault motor !!!! They are long lasting
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PostSubject: Re: Required CNG Kit Suggestion   Mon May 14, 2012 6:43 pm

Hi Parag,

While I cannot help you with all the queries, I do have some answers that may help you. (I am not a CNG user by the way). I just happen to work in an Automobile firm and hence can answer some queries.

sailent_killer wrote:
Hi to all logan members,
My self Parag residing in pune and having Logan 1.4 GLX Petrol (2008 Model). Only 12000 Km are completed in my vehicle and i am thinking to go for CNG conversion kit for my vehicle and i need you expert/experienced opinion. I have some queries if you can guide me for same,

1) Is is good to go for CNG kit for my vehicle after 4 year of usage on petrol ?
2) If yes then which is the best CNG kit available that suits my car ?
There are quite a many kits. Landi Renzo is one of the main & trusted brands

Quote :

3) which is the best option for fitment either company or outside with authorized dealer ?
Ideally company fitted is advisable. But Mahindra still does not provide OE CNG

Quote :

4) What will be the price of kit and also difference in both option (point no. 3) ?
Kit will cost about 50k

Quote :

5) Procedure to go for cng conversion kit ? i.e. registration, things to consider during fitment, initial checkup, best place to fit part in my vehicle, after service schedule ?
6) My vehicle is registered in Gujarat so do i need to fit this kit in Gujarat or can i do this in pune itself ?
You will need to check with the dealer for that.

Quote :

7) If anyone can share their experience during/after having conversion kit ?
Cool Also please let me know any other thing that i missed here and need to know before/after having conversion kit ?
If you ask me, I would say, it is not worth the pain.
- Think of the long queues you will have to wait in.
- You need to start your car on Petrol and then switch to CNG.
- If you go out of town and run short of CNG, you still have to run of Petrol
- You will lose that huge boot space and be limited to 2 packs, killing your basic need of a long journey

- Long term issues: CNG storage tank will be bolted to the boot floor. That will develop cracks in the long run, as the plate is not reinforced originally to handle the weight and stress put by the tank
- Your resale value will drop sharply when you plan to sell.

Quote :

I know i ask lot of things but you can understand that like child enter in this big world and not aware of things, like to know everything. am behaving same Smile
Will wait for your review/update for this and like to thank you in advance for all of you having such good logan forum.

Asking questions is fine. Just be sure of what you decide.

sailent_killer wrote:
Yes you are correct martin. but we can say same thing in different way. I am having 12000 because petrol cost is too much in india and i am living with wife and kid so for 3 people its really costly for any long trip. I think that i will go with car for more 4-5 years and today to go to my hometown it cost me same if i go with cng in my car. so i m thinking in that way.
So my other queries are still pending without answers Sad

Evaluate the cost of the kit and running costs and the added load you will be lugging around most of the time. Compare this with your regular running costs. Then decide

Surya
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sailent_killer
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PostSubject: Re: Required CNG Kit Suggestion   Mon May 14, 2012 8:12 pm

Thank you very much Surya for your time to give detail answers of my questions. you are correct that i need to think of kit and running cost as surely my usage is not huge in a day/month. I ll sure rethink on each of the point mentioned by you and martin and decide.
but surely this petrol cost is not allowing me to use my first car to its fullest Sad

If anyone like to give their views/comments/suggestions then i will be very happy to know about them.
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Loganromeo
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PostSubject: Re: Required CNG Kit Suggestion   Sat May 19, 2012 11:23 am

Gentlemen,

While my Logan still runs on petrol, I shifted my older Zen to CNG a couple of years back. Can share those details.

Cost of kit - Lovato - was about 25k all inclusive (with a 12 kg cylinder). Logan will come with a 14 kg one, so marginally expensive; current rates may have gone up with inflation.

Running cost - CNG gives mileage approx 40% more per kg of CNG vis-a-vis per liter of petrol ie if Zen would run 14-15 km per liter on petrol, it would run about 19-20 km per kg of CNG. With CNG being about 60% cost of petrol, the savings work out to be substantial. In fact after changing my Zen to CNG, my two wheeler lies totally neglected; even my sons have stopped looking at it.

In about 26,000 km that I have run the car on CNG in last two years, have recovered the cost of kit twice over.

Power - there in indeed a noticeable loss of power in a 993 cc Zen engine when the ac is on. In a Logan with a bigger engine, it would not be noticeable.

There is no starting on petrol and changing on to gas. You start on gas and run on it; or start on petrol and run on it should you so want.

Safety - absolutely no issues.

Queues at CNG stations - reach early morning and you can beat it - plan your refills.

Issues needing attention -

- Oil change recommended after 5000 kms, along with spark plugs and air filter (if possible). I do it for the health of my car's engine.

- Addl weight in the boot does show in a Zen, both in terms of looks and power. Even in a Logan, if you can have additional reinforcements fixed, it would only help; the mechanics have a way of welding an iron piece to take the load of the weight. I could not do it as I did not have the time then.

- Issues regarding lesser baggage space - well you have to live with it.

- You leave the town and have to switch to petrol when CNG runs out, no options there.

Overall, am I satisfied with the CNG conversion; well, since my Zen is primarily for city use - absolutely!

Any specific queries, glad to answer.
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PostSubject: Re: Required CNG Kit Suggestion   Sat May 19, 2012 1:45 pm

Thank you very much Loganromeo for your detail comments which boost my moral to go for CNG kit. Specifically the "Issues needing attention" are really that i was not aware of.

I also think the same way, if i go with CNG then ill use my car more often then now.
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ff1609
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PostSubject: Re: Required CNG Kit Suggestion   Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:09 am

I hope you did not get the CNG kit installed in your Logan because the answer is: It doesn't work well with Logan 1.4.

I live in Bangalore now (with no CNG), earlier when I was in Delhi, I got an Italian kit installed from an authorized CNG workshop ( all Mahindra workshops in Delhi outsource their CNG fittings to this workshop) but it just doesn't work. Apparently it works fine with 1.6 engine but not on 1.4.

The engine misfires all the time and the pressure of misfire is so strong that the throttle body and air filter everything falls out of their places. The air filter box itself costs over 5k to replace if broken.

CNG is a BIG NO for Logan 1.4.

I had to get the kit out.

In India the best cars for CNG are: All Hondas, Marutis and Hyundais.

Ford, Mahindra etc are not ok with CNG.
I used a WagonR on CNG - 100,000kms - no problems
Swift on CNG - 60k kms - no problems
Logan 1.4 on CNG - not even 5k kms and problems ONLY.
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martin245
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PostSubject: Re: Required CNG Kit Suggestion   Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:28 am

Ha ha ha l suppose it is down to getting it fitted properly ! In Rumania and here in Germany it works perfect
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ff1609
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PostSubject: Re: Required CNG Kit Suggestion   Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:46 am

Yeah I guess the mechanics here know only how to fix Hyundai, Honda and Suzukis Very Happy

These days the mechanics here outright decline the idea of installing a CNG kit in Logan 1.4. Even Logan dealers who sell pre-installed CNG kits, do that only on 1.6 engines.


Ford, Fiat GM, Logan issues are alien to most mechanics.
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chetan T
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PostSubject: Re: Required CNG Kit Suggestion   Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:25 am

In india Mechanics are by experience & jugad technology AND NOT BY CHOICE :-)
Very Happy all school college drop outs are mechanics Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Required CNG Kit Suggestion   Fri May 17, 2013 4:13 pm

Hello Friends,

I want to share my experience to you.

I am using LOGAN from last 6-7 months.
I purchase it from my colleague and it was 2007, 1.4 model and used till 42k.
I convert it to CNG and fit msequent kit cost Rs40k.

Now I run it 5k+ in 6 month duration and I am quite happy with it. Till now there is no issue I face regarding CNG. Good in performance and very cost effective.

On petrol it gives me 11 in local and 14 on highways. But on CNG it gives me 17 in local and 22 on highways.


There is one problem with CNG is there to refill it very frequent.

But still I am quite happy with this because it is very cost effective.

-Arvind
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PostSubject: Re: Required CNG Kit Suggestion   Fri May 17, 2013 4:38 pm

Dont just Gas ! use your Petrol as well sometimes ! also do you use Flashlube for your Valves
http://www.flashlube.com/uk/products/valve-saver-fluid.html
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arvindharitus
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PostSubject: Re: Required CNG Kit Suggestion   Fri May 17, 2013 4:48 pm

Where do I need to add this Flashlub?
Do I need to add this in petrol?
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PostSubject: Re: Required CNG Kit Suggestion   Fri May 17, 2013 5:54 pm

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martin245
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PostSubject: Re: Required CNG Kit Suggestion   Fri May 17, 2013 5:58 pm

http://www.flashlube.com/uk/products/valve-saver-kit.html

Or pour it in the tank as it shows here


FLASHLUBE Valve-Saver
Flashlube has been around for a long time. It was first introduced as an additive for cars converting to LPG. (LPG doesn't have lead either, of course, so also requires an additive to prevent VSR). Flashlube describe their Valve-Saver as "a combination of high-tech lead substitute additives designed to provide proven protection to the upper cylinder area." They claim that it protects valves and valve-seats from metal-to-metal contact as well as cleaning and protecting the upper-cylinder area.


They claim that the product has been extensively tested, and on their web-site they show a graph of an engine tested for VSR running petrol without Flashlube, and then with Flashlube. They claim that it meets international standard ADR37 for both exhaust emission and fuel consumption. It apparently also won a prize on the "Great Australian Science Show".

The product was up-dated in 1999, and now claims to be equal to lead as a preventative for VSR. (The original product was rated at 80% protection compared to lead).

Flashlube is Potassium based, but has a total of 5 chemicals in it's formula.

What impressed me about this product, is that it is not a new player in the market. It has been around for a long time, so it is well tried and tested. If it didn't work, it wouldn't still be sold! I had a personal
recommendation and also found some recommendations from people who had used it, or knew someone who had used it, on a couple of internet sites.

This is the product that I am now using (see the section below "But Do They Work?"). I had decided to try either this product or Valvemaster (see below), but went with Flashlube because initially I had trouble buying Valvemaster. (As it turns out, it is probably easier to find than Flashlube!).

It is available in several forms. You can buy a kit which consists of a container and an injector system to inject it directly into the inlet manifold, or you can buy it in several different sized containers and
just add it to your tank when you fill up. I bought it in a 1-litre bottle (which is enough for 1,000 litres of petrol), and carry a small bottle in the glovebox that holds enough for a tankful.

Cost works out at about 1c per litre. If you use normal Unleaded, this actually makes it cheaper than LRP (which is about 3c per litre more than Unleaded). If you need Premium Unleaded, this does make it a bit more expensive, with the price of Premium Unleaded running at around 4c per litre more than LRP. But hey, if it works better, then it's worth it isn't it? After all, it's only a couple of dollars extra for a whole tank-full!

It is available from Auto Accessories stores; but not all keep it, so you might have to shop around to find a place that stocks it. You can also buy direct from their web-site.

Their web-site is: www.flashlube.com.au
You can phone them on: 03 9329 8200


Last edited by vsuprak on Fri May 17, 2013 7:00 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Removed formatting to suit forum theme)
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