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 eXPERIENCE IN LOGAN 1.6 after cng retrofitting & solutions !

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highnoon
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PostSubject: eXPERIENCE IN LOGAN 1.6 after cng retrofitting & solutions !   Sun May 29, 2011 1:27 am

Hi guys !
I own a 1.6 gls - october 2007 logan. With 24500km on the odo. ( 25/10/2011 )
My observations of problems in my mahindra logan .
I started having some at about 9000km on the odo.
1) Cold starts- car stalls after starting unless u step on the gas a bit.- solved by cleaning of the IAC valve and the throttle body.
A clogged throttle body ( carbon ) would also mean vibrating on idle and car shutting off at signal in idle. These problems typically manifest in CNG retrofitted cars and are easily
3) HT coil may fail relatively early early on use of cng ( mine went kaput at 13000km ) . At co. service stations costs around Rs.4000/ INR. ( Not available after market )
4) clutch bearing noise ( sounds like frfrfrfrfrfr ) . On clutching sound goes away. returns after declutching.
5) A GL4 80W-90 oil made my gears very hard and difficult to slot. I ended up drainig the gear box and putting mOBIL ATF 220. After which everything was back to normal and smooth. Co. uses ELF 75-90 grade which is not available in retail pack.
6) Clutch is quite hard for the low run and knowing how she has been used though the short clutch travel and the low clutch position helps a lot for tall people.
Cool The engine is smooth , but after every 5000 km or so, you get this slight rough feel on the gas pedal. Plugs need cleaning or change frequently on CNG contrary to claims otherwise after which things go back to normal.
9) I change oil at 5000 km usually use a 15w-40 SL rated oil. 3.25 li. per change including filter. oil looks as good as new @ 5000 km , and co. recommended interval of 10000km. I 'll shift to 10w- 30 mobil when its colder .
Indian traffic conditions constitute most severe driving conditions with very high ambient temp. and dusty roads and long lines of bumper to bumper traffic. So i stick with the 5000 km for severe driving conditions.
10) Plastic bits rattle away to glory. even the rotary ac blower rings chirp away.
11) Side door mirrors are very badly engineered and tend to break very easily even while retracting.
12) No steering adjustment for a vehicle which has Air bag . But the default steering position is really nice .
14) The vehicle while going slowly over a speed breaker , makes a crrrk kind of noise somewhere near the rear strut. Somebody mentioned on the forum , universal brake compensator or something . I have yet to get this resolved. Its very irritating.
15) Parts are available in select places after market 'now' but they are on the expensive side for a car which is designed as a low cost car. Its not a bad thing to stock up some parts ( non rubber ones ) if you are going to retain the car for long.
Cng gives mileage of 14/15 kmpl in city on ac consistently which goes upto 22/23 kmpl on highway run without ac. Cng costs Rs. 31.78/ kg and it means fuel cost of about 2 rs. /km . The vehicle drives pretty well on cng though you are not going to win any races.
I drive about 2 km at the beginning of my journey on petrol and 2 km on return as well. If you follow this the cng retrofitted vehicle actually performs better , keep the fuel delivery system in working condition. And may retard valve seat recession/ sticking for an engine which has got only 2 valves per cylinder. The car starts by default on petrol and after the rpm climbs over 1500 , shifts to CNG.
Update @ 36725 km ( 21/04/2012 )
I am happy i am still retaining the logan. FE has been excellent. Engine is doing great. i recommend engine oil change at not later than 5000km on cng. I did about 4500 km in only a month and 5 days this time and just on impulse changed the oil and filter. on the dip stick oil appeared very clean and clear. the bosch 10w-30 multi grade SL rated oil is excellent for logan. but with the advent of terribly hot weather decided to change to thicker oil. in the pan the used oil appeared extremely clean and lubricious but smells totally burnt .
Certain mornings on cold starting engine dies after start 2/3 times before catching on. I suspect the Fuel pump motor/ injectors. lets see...
I have yet not figured out the ghrrrk noise that strut makes going over humps slow and some bouncy kind of noise while going over pot holes / uneven stretches a bit fast.

Update @ 37600km - rear struts ( atleast one of 'em leaking according to service guy at Avis Motors , Andheri. Left frornt strut also seems weak to me. the steering ball joints and right tie also seems weak. as of now no suspension noises except the rear strut / coil noise.
central gear floating foundation ( TORQUE ROD ) changed. PART cost Rs.1273/- + TAXES + Rs.350/- labour.
Clutch cable ( Rs. 782.22 /- plus taxes + Rs.250/ labour ) changed
new air filter element + scanning + new plugs and tuneup ( throttle body cleaning+_ injector cleaning ) + coolant change set me back by about 7000/-
Car is so smooth now. absolute delight to drive.
the morning starting problem is there though and doesnt seem to go away.
mahindra techies say ' cng mein aisa hi hota hai...... ' the rest of the day its fine though.
i wish some body could shed some light on this. nothing detected in scanning.... all sensors ok, new coil , new plugs, almost new like engine , new plug leads, clean throttle body and iac, clean injectors...... aur kya karein ?


Last edited by highnoon on Fri May 04, 2012 6:40 pm; edited 6 times in total (Reason for editing : Updating)
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rdr
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PostSubject: Re: eXPERIENCE IN LOGAN 1.6 after cng retrofitting & solutions !   Sun May 29, 2011 9:04 am

I have a Sept 2008 model Logan Edge GLSx which has done around 35000 KM and I'm happy to say that my car has not had even a single issue from this list.
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PostSubject: Re: eXPERIENCE IN LOGAN 1.6 after cng retrofitting & solutions !   Sun May 29, 2011 1:40 pm

rdr wrote:
I have a Sept 2008 model Logan Edge GLSx which has done around 35000 KM and I'm happy to say that my car has not had even a single issue from this list.

Thats good to hear.
I had a santro ram into my rear right door some time back. I visited 3 a.s.s. , They didnt even have the door in stock. They said they would order , ought to take 6 days or so, the work another 3 days. Refused to repair the door.
I ended up getting work done outside. The door stopper had snapped during the accident, as usual not available cost about > 1200 inr. Luckily , Managed to get one from a salvage yard at CST road. kurla.
The day problems start and usually in 3 years or so, one starts repenting Smile
I mean even palio parts are available in after market., which bombed because of lack of availability of spares.
This is way worse.
And now mahindra had to relaunch the same vehicle without localization of parts and wihtout reducing the price. The throttle body is made up of plastic and is fixed with only one screw.javascript:emoticonp('No') The coil is affixed with 3 , with 1 slot empty. What is that cost cutting ? aND THE COIL IS PLACED directly on top of engine. The damn thing is going to have reduced service life due to the extra heat of engine.
Some of the problems i faced , like the IAC , coil could've been because of retrofitting to cng. But some are not. most i believe are due to cost cutting.
The fuel economy is fabulous. Day before yest, i actually managed to do 201 km on 7.5 kg of cng , Mumbai lonavala Mumbai. i consistently get in city TRAFFIC ON AC on always, 15kmpk. cng costs rs.31.87/ kg in vashi, This translates to fuel cost per km , a shade over 2 rs per km. On the highway, easily gives 21km per kg.
Its ride quality is great,handling reasonably precise, so is space inside. The pedals are very low , very close to floor , something that somebody 6ft,. tall with a lower back problem ( like me ...) shall appreciate immensely.
But its got its failings. Its got a terribly low resale , non availibilty of spares is a serious concern, its cheap plastic is not built for longevity, mahindra service stations are the pits.
and most electrical spares cost are on the higher side.
Apart from the fact that for a well engineered product , it suffers from really poor image.
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PostSubject: Re: eXPERIENCE IN LOGAN 1.6 after cng retrofitting & solutions !   Sun May 29, 2011 2:19 pm

I also have a 2008 model with 62000 km and no problems
Where would you like them to put the coil ? Its heat resistant so you have no need to worry
You may have what we call a "Monday" car
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highnoon
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PostSubject: EBAY online store   Sun May 29, 2011 9:03 pm

@ Mr. Martin,

On ebay i found a dealer of IAC and other sensors located in Berlin. He keeps aftermarket sensors, motors of a brand known as LOWE for various vehicles with their part numbers.
He ships them worldwide for i think 7$ . The part cost is about 35 $.
It replaces the siemens VDO IAC installed in my vehicle.
Would you be knowing anything about this ?
The manufacturer , i mean.

Regds,
Kedar
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PostSubject: Re: eXPERIENCE IN LOGAN 1.6 after cng retrofitting & solutions !   Sun May 29, 2011 9:55 pm

I would buy the original from Dacia
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highnoon
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PostSubject: Re: eXPERIENCE IN LOGAN 1.6 after cng retrofitting & solutions !   Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:02 pm

martin245 wrote:
I would buy the original from Dacia

That option doesnt seem to be available for me here in India.
Full throttle body may be available on order , but the IAC is not sold separately , looks like.
So i end up spending 3 times the price of the stepper motor when only that part need s replacement.
Shall try to find it online.
anyway thanks !
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PostSubject: Re: eXPERIENCE IN LOGAN 1.6 after cng retrofitting & solutions !   Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:37 pm

I am sure that if you get in touch with this firm you will get results
http://www.daciashop.eu/?gclid=COyg5JmZn6kCFVOMzAodSiRpvA

Taken from the website so come on and kick Mahindra into touch
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------



international Shipping - non-EU Countries
Daciashop.eu ships international orders with the Romanian Postal Service (EMS). Shipping fees are calculated on a combined basis of weight, value (for insurance purposes), and destination. Internnational custumers can request a shipping cost estimate by sending us an email.

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highnoon
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PostSubject: Re: eXPERIENCE IN LOGAN 1.6 after cng retrofitting & solutions !   Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:35 pm

Mr. Martin,
Much obliged . this is great. I just hope the shipping doesnt cost an arm. parts cost much less than in india Smile

regds,
kedar
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PostSubject: Re: eXPERIENCE IN LOGAN 1.6 after cng retrofitting & solutions !   Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:49 pm

Maybe if one of you acted as a representative and made a collective order you would get good rates

have you noticed you can CHAT with the firm when they are open a bit like you can on Facebook
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highnoon
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PostSubject: Great online store for Logan parts   Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:50 am

martin245 wrote:
Maybe if one of you acted as a representative and made a collective order you would get good rates

have you noticed you can CHAT with the firm when they are open a bit like you can on Facebook

Yeah , and the prices seem reasonable for most electronic parts. Only thing is i am getting them offline all the time. And they have not responded to my messages. MAYBE DUE TO THE TIME DIFFERENCE.
Its REALLY AN excellent site. Wish we had something like this in india.
Believe me logan would have done very well here had that been the case.
So in case if they dont respond in shipping it here , i 'll have it shipped to UK to my cousin's address , who'll be visiting india sometime next month.
Thanks Martin.
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PostSubject: Re: eXPERIENCE IN LOGAN 1.6 after cng retrofitting & solutions !   Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:22 pm

just click on the contact box and leave a message
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highnoon
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PostSubject: Re: eXPERIENCE IN LOGAN 1.6 after cng retrofitting & solutions !   Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:26 pm

After trying to get good price for my logan and failing miserably , i have decided to hold on to it rather than sell it at a great loss at this juncture.
Its otherwise fuel efficient , ride is cushy. i have solved my problem of low set seat and lumbar support , by adding an inch thick sheet of foam for both seat and backrest.
Also fixed a corset kind of thing for the backrest which supports my troubled back rather well , i must say. An extra neck pillow on the headrest ( center position ) for cervical region spinal support.
Also started ton drive first 3 kms and last 3 kms everyday on petrol without fail.
This seems to help as the stalling problem on starting seems to have vanished almost.
The IAC after last cleanup job is behaving so the performance on cng is excellent. Fuel economy is consistently good.

I am loving it.

Touchwood javascript:emoticonp('Very Happy')
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PostSubject: Re: eXPERIENCE IN LOGAN 1.6 after cng retrofitting & solutions !   Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:25 pm

Stuart,

I tried to buy the Front Center Armrest console from this site.

They said, they don't ship to India.

I wish they did !
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highnoon
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PostSubject: Re: eXPERIENCE IN LOGAN 1.6 after cng retrofitting & solutions !   Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:52 pm

Hi Parag,
Try to get it shipped to somebody you know in UK /EUROPE AND ask them to get it or send it here.
I am going to do that. Postage isnt much.
Only the part that i wanted the IAC motor seems to be out of stock
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PostSubject: Re: eXPERIENCE IN LOGAN 1.6 after cng retrofitting & solutions !   Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:39 pm

Have done a OBC readout to see if your IAC is ok or not try cleaning and checking the conections at the IAC sender
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highnoon
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PostSubject: Re: eXPERIENCE IN LOGAN 1.6 after cng retrofitting & solutions !   Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:19 pm

martin245 wrote:
Have done a OBC readout to see if your IAC is ok or not try cleaning and checking the conections at the IAC sender

The vehicle after a service, in this case
!) plug change 2) air filter change 3) coil change runs very smooth for say 2500 km. after which the engine starts feeling a little rough. the accelerator pedal starts getting a bit course feel to it.
Back to garage for a quick plug cleaning , adjusting the gaps , put them back. Clean the air filter with the air pressure and gentle tapping.
Everything goes back in & after you drive for say couple of hundred km , the engine feels smooth back again , like new.
Does that happen to you ? or it is actually a case of 'fill it forget it' ?
Or it happens after say 5000 km if you running only on petrol ?
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PostSubject: Re: eXPERIENCE IN LOGAN 1.6 after cng retrofitting & solutions !   Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:00 am

Well if you are always going to the Garage you are saving nothing whatsoever .Next time you take it make sure its fixed properly and WHY a coil change ? Air filters dont get cleaned they get renewed and the Plugs are good for 55000 Mine are still ok after 60000 go to a different garage if its not still under warrenty and if it is take it back and demand a car until its fixed 
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highnoon
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PostSubject: Re: eXPERIENCE IN LOGAN 1.6 after cng retrofitting & solutions !   Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:25 pm

martin245 wrote:
Well if you are always going to the Garage you are saving nothing whatsoever .Next time you take it make sure its fixed properly and WHY a coil change ? Air filters dont get cleaned they get renewed and the Plugs are good for 55000 Mine are still ok after 60000 go to a different garage if its not still under warrenty and if it is take it back and demand a car until its fixed 

On CNG plugs have to be changed after services ( 5000 KM /Service ) on CNG , and cleaned once / twice inbetween , otherwise it misfires , the there is hesitation , incomplete combustion. Denso PKR20 cost 300 inr /set of 4 so its not that much of a cost. I have changed the coil as it was busted , no spark in two clylinders. The new one ought to last 50000km or so on gas. But for the record , mahindra didnt give me any warranty for the coil.
Plugs spark is advanced ( gap shortened for CNG firing ) so the plug life is shorter on NGVs.
My garage is ok. Its just the nature of the beast. NGV maintenance is higher but the saving is phenomenal.
I just wanted to know if you get degradation in performance on petrol and after what interval. Any hesitation , any courseness to the engine note / feel during the service interval. I mean 5000 km / 7500 km / 10000km. Have you noticed any or you never have any ?
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PostSubject: Re: eXPERIENCE IN LOGAN 1.6 after cng retrofitting & solutions !   Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:47 am

My car runs like a dream "Honest" I still have the same plugs and they have never been adjusted at all Over 60000km I am due a service soon but I will do this myself Oil and filters but I will let a local small garage fit my new Brakes and disks 
what do you mean by 5000 7500 10000km service ?
My Logan runs really well it is pretty powerfull for a 1400cc and I surprise a few VW golfs when I am out !haha The Quality of german fuel is superb as of most things in Germany 
So I am now off to Ebay and going to buy My Brakes and Disks !They have brilliant offers 
http://cgi.ebay.de/Bremsscheiben-Bremsen-Belage-Dacia-Logan-MCV-1-4-1-6-VA-/130428138633?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item1e5e1f7489
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highnoon
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PostSubject: Re: eXPERIENCE IN LOGAN 1.6 after cng retrofitting & solutions !   Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:05 pm

martin245 wrote:
My car runs like a dream "Honest" I still have the same plugs and they have never been adjusted at all Over 60000km I am due a service soon but I will do this myself Oil and filters but I will let a local small garage fit my new Brakes and disks 
what do you mean by 5000 7500 10000km service ?
My Logan runs really well it is pretty powerfull for a 1400cc and I surprise a few VW golfs when I am out !haha The Quality of german fuel is superb as of most things in Germany 
So I am now off to Ebay and going to buy My Brakes and Disks !They have brilliant offers 
http://cgi.ebay.de/Bremsscheiben-Bremsen-Belage-Dacia-Logan-MCV-1-4-1-6-VA-/130428138633?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item1e5e1f7489

Thats good. Mine needs tinkering. It would be because of the CNG being used as primary fuel. A typical service interval for CNG car is 5000 km. Nearing end or in the mid of of this interval, performance , FE , PICKUP , SMOOTHNESS goes down invariably. On bit of tinkering ( which is not expensive ) the performance is regained and the vehicle motor is smooth again as always. I have had this cycle recurring without fail for last 60000 km ( 45000 km on an Accent on LPG & 15000 km on CNG on the Logan ).
Here in India, we have quite dusty conditions , the ambient temperature is very high and traffic situation is terrible. Roads are usually bad.
one may have done only 30000 km on the odo , but in reality number of hours idling could translate to having 60000km on the odo. All this takes toll on your vehicle.
Fuel quality is suspect . Adultration is high. even in CNG.
BTW how come with all the options you had , you didn't prefer a german engineered car ?
I wanted to change to a VW Polo TDI recently , but it sits so low , it would have been bad for my back. Skoda Fabia was a little better , but you hear horror stories about its maintenance cost.
The Logan on the other hand seems like a very well engineered robust product for the price and its ultimate end user.


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martin245
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PostSubject: Re: eXPERIENCE IN LOGAN 1.6 after cng retrofitting & solutions !   Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:20 pm

horror stories about its maintenance cost. and that is the same for all German cars .In fact German cars are not like they used to be at all they are too dear for a start and who needs all these nicknacks in a car like heated seats self dimming mirrow auto rain sensor bla bla bla ! The Logan gives me what I need to drive safely around it and another thing the ESP traction unit that a lot of modern cars have today is deadly in my eyes ! I see kids driving there new golfs and BMWs round bends at horrific speeds putting there trust in the ESP which like everything must also have its borders
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highnoon
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PostSubject: Re: eXPERIENCE IN LOGAN 1.6 after cng retrofitting & solutions !   Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:18 pm

martin245 wrote:
horror stories about its maintenance cost. and that is the same for all German cars .In fact German cars are not like they used to be at all they are too dear for a start and who needs all these nicknacks in a car like heated seats self dimming mirrow auto rain sensor bla bla bla ! The Logan gives me what I need to drive safely around it and another thing the ESP traction unit that a lot of modern cars have today is deadly in my eyes ! I see kids driving there new golfs and BMWs round bends at horrific speeds putting there trust in the ESP which like everything must also have its borders

Thats true. We end up paying a packet for frills which can be avoided, and the car manufacturers cleverly pack the variants with features in such a way in india , that for basic requirements too one has to buy almost a top of the line version.
I too find Logan does everything so well. I have a Tata SUV which was my primary vehicle. When i first drove my sister's Logan , i was stunned by the ride , by the ergonomy of the controls ( except the boot release , bonnet release off course ) , the short travel clutch which despite being on the stiffer side really helps people with lumbar problems / hamstring injuries ), the steering wheel position which is so good it doesnt need adjustment. the simplicity of it is stunning. My wife drives a hatch with the highly publicized ( In india ) k series suzuki motor is smooth , but i found the logan motor very smooth and unstrained in the band which i am used to drive. The nature of the motor and the state of tune is such that it feels like a highly highly refined diesel motor rather than a typical gasolene motor if u know what i mean.
The Renault mahindra fallout and basically failure of the vehicle in india makes the ownership of the vehicle difficult here , but i can imagine the sheer value the vehicle offers if the not so expensive shares from Dacia / renault was available like in Europe.
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PostSubject: Re: eXPERIENCE IN LOGAN 1.6 after cng retrofitting & solutions !   Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:32 pm

A very nice and Honest write up !
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PostSubject: Re: eXPERIENCE IN LOGAN 1.6 after cng retrofitting & solutions !   Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:01 pm

Quote :
The Renault mahindra fallout and basically failure of the vehicle in india makes the ownership of the vehicle difficult here , but i can imagine the sheer value the vehicle offers if the not so expensive shares from Dacia / renault was available like in Europe.

Truly a good car that has been done to dust, thanks to the way mahindra handled its customers ,not Renault
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